Comments: Will the Progressives ever realize we're in a WORLD WAR?

maybe the ragheads are counting all those civilians they have killed in various places around the globe

Posted by GUYK at January 9, 2006 03:12 PM

What makes you think 'progressives' don't realize we're in a war?
I don't see anyone denying we're in the middle of a war. Of course I don't know if you could say 'the middle' because we're in the midst of a war with no end. How do you win the war on terror? By defeating the terrorist. Which considerning we don't know who is and who is not a terrorist and exactly where they're all hiding out, it's pretty much an unending and unwinnable war.
Let me ask you this, how is the idea of spreading Islam throught the world any different than the idea of spreading Christianity? Or democracy for that matter. Of course we think our religion and our idea of government is better. It's OUR's it has to be better. But guess what? Muslims think THEIR's is better. They believe there's is the one true God. Granted, most Christians would never harm anyone in their pursuit of spreading their faith, but one only need look at Pat Robertson and James Dobson to know even Christians have their radicals.
Do you think for one minute that George W. Bush is not as determined and as passionate about his goal of 'spreading democracy' as Abu Musab al-Azrqawi is about spreading Islam? Do you understand they see us as the infidels?
The truth is we are engaged in a war of religion and beliefs. It's becoming increasingly clear that both sides are willing to do ANYTHING to win. That, Delfsman is the realty of the war in which we are in.

Posted by wanda at January 9, 2006 04:44 PM

Wanda, your idiocy is showing.

The "war" between Islam and civilization was declared about 1200 years ago, by Mohammed.

You also seem to think that spreading "democracy" is a bad thing, and should be halted.

Of course, being a Regressive, you aren't a big fan of individuality, or the rights of the individual to speak for themselves. Dialectic Materialism doesn't allow for individuality. You really should read up on the philosophy that guides your beliefs and actions.

Moron.

Posted by the Humble Devildog at January 9, 2006 07:14 PM

"how is the idea of spreading Islam throught the world any different than the idea of spreading Christianity? Or democracy for that matter."

Well Wanda, the difference is that we don't behead those that won't convert, we don't specifically target women and babies with bombs.
Radical Islam is a byproduct of the tyranies that much of the ME lives under, so yes, I do believe spreading democracy is a way to fight terrorism. Democracy can free people that would otherwise BECOME terrorists, because they see no other choice. (yes that is a dream at the moment, but who said dreamers were the exclusive province of the Progressives?; the difference is we don't pretend the dream can be the reality if we just say it is so long and loud enough, we do the nitty gritty, dreary work to prepare the soil so that the dream may blossom.)

".. our idea of government is better. It's OUR's it has to be better. But guess what? Muslims think THEIR's is better."
But ours IS demonstrably better, not just because it's the system WE live under, but because it provides more and better for the greatest number of people. We lament the plight of the "poor" in this country, but that's a relative term..only in America do the poor own cars, have airconditioning, and color tvs, and if a certain Democratic proposal goes through they will soon have computers and broadband access PROVIDED by Uncle Sugar too.

My parents raised 6 kids on $60-75 a week, so I know what it's like to be "poor",but compared to the REAl poor in most of the world, we were living in luxury.

"but one only need look at Pat Robertson and James Dobson to know even Christians have their radicals."

Yeah we DO have our "radicals" and nutjobs, but that's ANOTHER difference between "us' and "them"...here, we laugh at them, there, they follow them as holy men, to the point of strapping semtex on their children at their "holy man's" command and sending them out to kill "infidel" women and children. THERE the president of their country calls Jews the "progenitors of apes and swine", and strangly enough, without one word of approbation from the PC Progressives. I'm sick of the attempts to make moral equivilencies were truly none exist.

"Do you think for one minute that George W. Bush is not as determined and as passionate about his goal of 'spreading democracy' as Abu Musab al-Azrqawi is about spreading Islam?"

I sure HOPE so! Democracy will be the only way to prevent a holocaust the likes of which I don't believe anyone younger than 70 or so can even truly imagine. I have second hand "memories" of the Death Camps and the brutalities of WW2 from my father, who lived it, and I don't think for one moment that what I imagine and "remember" comes even close to the reality

"Do you understand they see us as the infidels?"

I truly believe that the average conservative actually understands that better than the average progressive. you see, WE actually understand what the term means in their context, and understand the depth of what it means to them. All too many progressives just consider it a hollow bargaining position from which to strike a bargain from.

"It's becoming increasingly clear that both sides are willing to do ANYTHING to win. That, Delfsman is the realty of the war in which we are in."

There JUST may be hope for you yet, Wanda. As soon as you come to realize the underlying truths of that statement, we'll be here to welcome you into the fold of a TRUE reality based world. A world where we see it as it truly is; with the HOPE of someday turning it into what we would WISH it to be.

Posted by delftsman3 at January 9, 2006 11:13 PM

Humble, your response is why I don't comment on more rightwing blogs. You people are incapable of having a civil conversation.
Please tell me how it is that I can be both a regressive and a progressive?
Being a "pro"gressive, I'm a big fan of individuality, and the rights of the individual to speak for themselves. Apparently far more than you are. Since you have no respect for me or my opinions.
Democracy is not a bad thing. But neither is Islam. It is only the radicals on both sides that want to force others to bow to their idea of what is 'right'. If what we're experiencing in this country today is the kind of democracy your talking about, then maybe we should try sweeping around our own back door before we go trying to tell other people how to live their lives.
People of other countries have their own cultures, their own ways of life. The United States has no business trying to force them to bend to our idea of government or religion. It is one thing to defend oneself from those who attack you. It's entirely another to try to force your ideals on others.
I believe to each his own. I believe in the right of every individual to worship as he or she pleases. I believe in the right of free speech and the right to make one's own personal private choices. I believe the government should stay out of my bedroom, my bank account, and my library account.
If there's anyone who's displaying regressive characteristics it's you.

Delftsman, I find it interesting that you would mention the holocaust. I recently read an article by a holocaust survivor who said he was moving back to Germany. Why? Because he said he recognized what what happening here in this country. He'd seen it before. I fear he may be right. I know you don't want to believe that, but the reality is the 'right' of today has more in common with the narrowminded one one deminsional viewpoint of communisim than liberals ever could. Liberals by definition believe in liberation, not repression. Am I a liberal? You bet I am. Am I progressive? Yes sir! Do I support the rights of all granted by our Constitution? Yes I do. Do I think we have the right or responsiblity to force those beliefs on people of other countries? I do not.
Democracy is a great thing. If it's really a democracy.

Posted by wanda at January 10, 2006 06:57 PM

HDD did paint with too broad a brush when it comes to you Wanda, but when you align yourself with dogs, you're going to suffer fleas.

"I believe in the right of every individual to worship as he or she pleases."

UNLESS they do it in public, of course. THAT might offend someone.

"Do I support the rights of all granted by our Constitution?"

WITH the exception of the 2nd. Amendment. I believe you do think you support the rights in the Constitution (with the one exception above)...even the rights not enumerated in it, but put in place under "emanations of the penumbra" thereof.

"Democracy is a great thing. If it's really a democracy."

One problem there Wanda..we are NOT and were never designed to be a democracy, we are a Republic. The U.S. certainly has it's faults, but it's still the closest thing to goal of individual freedom and opportunity that has ever existed. Only the Progressives seem to think that "if it's not perfect, it must be evil".


"The United States has no business trying to force them to bend to our idea of government or religion. It is one thing to defend oneself from those who attack you."

I would agree with you but for one thing,
Wanda...just WHAT do you do when the end goal of a different culture and/or religion is your utter destruction? THEY say it's their goal. THEY have demonstrated a willingness and an ability to turn their rhetoric into physical action. THEY say that they will continue until they have achieved their goal. EVERY time diplomacy was engaged in, THEY used it as a way to rebuild strength to be able to continue the fight. We gave them money for development and the betterment of their people, and it was used for the benefit of the despots and their arms aquisition programs, even as they continued to build resentments against their benefactors.

There is a time for diplomacy, and there is a time for arms; I don't supppose it's any secret which time I believe it is.

Posted by delftsman3 at January 10, 2006 11:30 PM

Interestingly enough, Wanda, Delfts' father is a non-Jewish holocaust survivor as well. And given the opportunity to return to Europe, I can truly say he would not avail himself of it.

Second, and this is to all of you from both ends of this situation, please remember that this country does not base its method of governing on Democracy. This is not a democracy by any stretch of the imagination. And I, for one, would rue the day this nation ever becomes one.

A democratically elected Representative Republic is what we live in, regardless of what Miss Smith may have told all of you in the third grade. If we lived in the "Democracy" that so many either believe we have, or that so many more wish we have, we'd be mired in ridiculous votes and referenda on a weekly basis. Do I really want Mob Rule? No, and absent the pitchforks and torches that is what a true Democracy is.

I'll take a pass on that, please. And if that is what your friend wants, Wanda, I wish him well and good luck. He'll never find it, and he'll find himself in fear of the Mob once again. You'd think people would learn, wouldn't you?

Posted by Mamamontezz at January 10, 2006 11:58 PM

Okay, Wanda, you asked for it.

You label yourself a "progressive", but, you are actually a REgressive. Your "ideas" on individuality and governing have already been tried, MANY times in history. Each time, those "ideas" were a colossal FAILURE.

The "progressive" movement is based upon Dialectic Materialism, which is the philosophy created by Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, which they then used to create the economic model of Communism. DM holds that individuals have NO effect on society, only movements do. Don't believe me? Look it up. Research it. I did.

Individuality is anathema to the "progressive" movement. What are you "progressing" towards? Communism. Communism doesn't recognize the rights of the individual.

In addition, EVERY SINGLE PRIMARY ADVOCATE of "individual rights" in the US since about 1920 has been a Communist. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE! I do not speak of the current Useful Idiots (Stalin's term for you all), but, the philosophers and thinkers who shaped the arguement.

As to your idiocy of "We don't have the right to tell immigrants how to live in the US": Are you aware that Islam allows slavery, the beating of women, forced prostitution, killing of women, counts women as less than half a man, and does not recognize the rights of others to be non-Muslim? And those are just the highlights of it! According to you, Muslims should be allowed to follow THEIR religion, even though it runs counter to our LAWS and culture! What idiocy!

In addition to that, name me ONE country that has prospered without a central cultural identity. JUST ONE!

I'll give you a hint: Find the Austrio-Hungarian Empire on your map sometime, and book a flight there. That should keep you occupied for the rest of your life.

Posted by the Humble Devildog at January 11, 2006 12:19 AM
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