Comments: Just One More Reason to Carry a Concealed Weapon

Ahh.

THIS is where the tough questions arise.

As a potential Wisconsin CCW holder, I think that merely brandishing would have discouraged some of the yout's in their rampage.

How-some-ever: if brandishing doesn't achieve its purpose, that is, the crowd does not find someone else to attack, does one pull the trigger against apparently un-armed opponent(s)?

One would like an array of defensive weapons, starting at baton, then pepper-spray, then beanbag shotgun, THEN lethal.

But life isn't that simple, is it?

Posted by dad29 at August 5, 2011 02:29 PM

Well, there are moral and legal aspects to your question. Under what circumstances does Wisconsin law allow the use of lethal force? Does it allow brandishing your weapon? Since brandishing can be considered a threat, does it now give the crowd a legal basis for attacking you because you have now threatened them and placed them in fear if imminent bodily harm? Same thing with warning shots.

A beat down can kill you. Look up the story about the individual beaten into a coma, and possibly permanent vegetative state, at LA stadium on opening day this year.

Yes, you pull the trigger if you are in fear of imminent bodily harm to yourself or others legally under your authority to do so. Tactics on how many rounds into who are up to you.

Posted by styrgwillidar at August 5, 2011 03:05 PM

One would like an array of defensive weapons, starting at baton, then pepper-spray, then beanbag shotgun, THEN lethal.

By that logic, you are using your ranged weapons last and your clubbing weapons first so neither one is really of any value to you.

Oddly enough, the US Army used to teach the incremental approach when it came to first aid and controling bleeding. First direct pressure, then bandage, then pressure bangage then pressure points and when all else fails, apply a touniquet. Then they discovered that the patient died somewhere between steps 2 and 3. Now they teach tourniquet first.

Fireams are the same way. In most justisdictions, you can only use a firearm in your own defense (or in defending someone else) if you believe your life is in danger. If you really believe that, why are you wasting your time with all that other stuff that will get you killed?

A gun does more than just launch bullets. It makes a really loud noise that tells a large crowd of people that play time is over. The rules just changed. Non-lethal stuff might help in a one-on-one fray but still go unnoticed in a mob. Shooting a gun gets attention.

Also, you can't go armed to the state fair looking for trouble. If you expect violence at the State Fair, your right to self defense begins and ends with avoiding the Fair.

Posted by Professor Hale at August 5, 2011 03:06 PM

'Also, you can't go armed to the state fair looking for trouble. If you expect violence at the State Fair, your right to self defense begins and ends with avoiding the Fair.'

But the CCW and carrying a weapon isn't any indication of 'looking for trouble' or an expectation of violence anymore than wearing a motorcycle helmet, boots and jacket while riding are looking for or expecting an accident on any particular day. They are insurance against undesirable events.

Posted by styrgwillidar at August 5, 2011 03:11 PM

@styrg,
I agree. But if he expects rioting at the state fair and straps on and goes there and hangs out at the gate waiting for trouble to break out, then he is "looking for trouble".

He would be asked at his trial why he went there if he expected trouble and he would have to make a credible argument that the previous night's trouble was an isolated incident so he wasn't expecting trouble and he was just carrying to defend himself against the normal risk of trouble that everyone is under everywhere and everyday. Having a habit of carrying all the time will help his defense.

Posted by Professor Hale at August 5, 2011 03:26 PM

Sounds like Al Gore got the "Arab Spring" that he called for in the U.S.

Posted by Junk Science Skeptic at August 5, 2011 03:52 PM

Obviously the Police are afraid to protect unarmed citizens in Milwaukee. And they are armed to the teeth. To Protect and Serve, unless it's against a black mob.

Posted by LAZRTX at August 5, 2011 04:22 PM

One question that needs to be addressed is, are you ready to use your weapon? Not everybody is. Whether you're using a club or a firearm you had better be ready and willing to use the weapon, or else it will be, at best, useless, or used against you. All the training in the world is worthless when you won't use your equipment against imminent danger.

If you can't use your weapon you might as well leave it home, where a possible assailant can't get his hands on it to use against you.

Posted by Alan Kellogg at August 5, 2011 07:36 PM

this is one of about a dozen stories this summer about huge crowds of violent black teens.

sorry, I avoid events and areas where young blacks congregate. they have culturally infused themselves with anger hate and racial bigotry.

racial bigotry is now the provence of black people . I so rarely meet bigoted whites now its like running into a polar bear it just never happens, sure the libtard media wants everyone to think whitey is racist, but reality is whitey doesnt give a sh1t and just wants to get on with life.

the media has beenhushing up these events but they are getting more and more prevalent.

Posted by rumcrook at August 5, 2011 08:15 PM