Comments: How Would You Arm A Squad

All right, I'll play.

For the standard weapon, I'd use AR-10s. Flat top, 16-18" chrome lined barrels, collapsible stock (Magpul), possibly use the Bushmaster type lower that uses unmodified FN-FAL mags. Maybe add either a gas trap like on the Arms Tech Compak-16 (No moving parts, runs cleaner than standard system), or a gas piston system if it can be made to not affect accuracy. Ideally I'd want the upper to be made like the LMT MRP, with the railed fore end made as one with the upper, but I would settle for ARMS SIR fore ends. Relatively compact weapon that can be reconfigured to perform several missions with nothing more than a barrel change, which is pretty easy. Long range sniping? Slap on a 26" barrel. The Magpul stock is rigid like a fixed stock, and AR-10s are routinely as accurate as bolt actions. Room clearing? Slap on a 7-10" barrel (and a small suppressor so that the muzzle blast doesn't blow your eyeballs out of your head) and push the stock all the way in. In the standard configuration (16-18") rounds will remain lethal as far our as a person can hit under actual field conditions.

For the squad MG, I'd use the lightened version of the M240. Seems to have a good reputation for reliability.

For the sidearms, I'd settle for double stack, polymer framed 1911s with dustcover light rails and external extractors. Ideally, I'd develop a striker fired pistol shaped basically like a 1911 that had an HK style ambidextrous mag release that uses unmodified STI mags. I'd also do away with the mainspring housing, shortening the grip a little closer to 9mm length pistols. No grip safety and no manual safety because I DON'T LIKE THEM. Built in beavertail and lanyard attachment point. Such a pistol can handle everything from 9mm to full power 10mm.

Posted by Garrum at February 1, 2005 06:10 PM

Concerning your list I'd say you've excellent taste, excepting the Tangfolio(I haven't had any experience with the general design). And the H&K MP-5 variants shouldn't be discounted (10mm is available), unless economy is a factor.
Tactics, however, must trump taste and nostalgia as a matter of policy. The Garand, in any major tacticle role, ain't gonna make it. In all reverence, the rifle was designed and deployed because the U.S. hadn't learned the tactical lessons of the Great War, which, was itself generalled by men who tried to fight it with modern weapons coupled with Civil War and Napoleonic Tactics.
Some german commanders learned from WWI, that with modern weapons and apposing forces of comparable strength, highly fluid warfare was the only way to produce victories with minimum human attrition. The concept of static defenses being assaulted by troop formations advancing en mass over open terrain died in the first year of WWI and begat the quagmire that was trench warfare. The M1903, the Enfeild, and the Gewehr98 were so deadly, they forced the very adaptations that made them obsolete.
In WWII the Germans gave France and Britain an indepth symposium on the future of war, out flanking, isolating and rendering the Maginot Line useless). The French got a refresher on this topic at Dein Bein Phu.
-Modern weapons: rifles; MGs; artillery; armour; air cover, all mean the enemy'd have to be a pack-a-damn-fools to give an opposing force a 600m line-of-sight on their advancing soldiers, that's why snipers have to get camo'd up and hide for hours or go hunting to score a kill. The Wehrmacht figured most of this out, and I'd argue that if the Mkb44 had arrived in time to be the Mkb41, they probably would've taken Stalingrad and postponed their defeat by a year or so.
-The Garand was only effective in the fluid field of WWII battle because it was mainly opposing Kar98s, Carancos and Arisakas. This gave the G.I.s a massive advantage in terms of firepower; they could keep the enemy's head down as they advanced to kill them. The M14 compounds this advantage with no appreciable reduction of range,and I wouldn't feel short totin' it, so long as I'd get to pick the ammo. Ditto for the BM59.
-I've never seen an example of a man hit with multiple rounds of 5.56(M193) in the torso(not grazes or shallow track woulds), who wasn't seriously f'd. And why would a non deforming non fragmenting .311 caliber FMJ projectile with enough energy to completely penetrate a target transfer less energy to the target than a smaller (.308)FMJ projectile of similar construction. Driving a 16d nail through a 2x6 with a 3lbs hammer transfers more energy to the 2x6 than a 12d nail even if driven by a 16lbs sledge.
-Finally I'd outfit the squad with whatever the majority of infantry field commanders could agree to, while maintaining only one rifle and one handgun/SMG caliber at the squad level.My personal choice would be the G3 in either 6.5Grendel or .250Savage.
-But hey since we're dreaming could I have a Garand chambered for 5.56x45mm. **Jasen exits swiftly, as he hears Publicola fumbling for a clip for his Garand and mumbling," insolent,good fer nothin'heretic"**

Posted by Jasen at February 1, 2005 07:07 PM


Interesting. I can see how a weapons platform that's capable of filling multiple roles is appealing. & the M240 (FN MAG) is a fine piece of machinery. Basically it's the 1918 BAR action turned upside down & made to handle belts. But I can't say I've ever been crazy about striker fired pistols though.

He Who Must Place His Hand In A Garand Action & Repeatedly Let The Bolt Correct His Foul Tongue & Evil Heart Through The Mechanism Of Pain & Remembereance (or as he was formerly known - Jasen),

"A 5.56x45 Garand huh?" says Publicola as he calmly inserts the clip, let's the action slam home, counts patiently to ten as he adds 7 clicks to the sight, then just before he sends the heathen He Who Must Place His Hand...etc, flying with yet another 168 grainer hitting another bullseye (but a very different, very personal kind of bullseye) he recalls some trusted advice: WWSJD? (What Would Stonewall Jackson Do?) So he sits down, yells to He Who Must Place His Hand... etc, that everything's okay & there's no harm done as he affixes the implement of instruction to the Garand & waits patiently to "teach him the bayonet". :D

I figured your take would be along those lines (well except for the blasphemin' at the end). & I can't say it's not logicially thought out. I can say I disagree a bit & time permitting I'll try to explain the how's & why's more in depth. But right now to wipe a rather hideous mental image out of my mind I think I'm going to finish reading my latest literary acquisition - "Precision Shooting w/ the M1 Garand" by Roy Baumgardner.

Posted by Publicola at February 2, 2005 01:38 AM've got a pretty big squad there...standard US Army rifle squad is 9 men-a squad leader and 2 four man fire teams.

How hypothetical am I allowed to be? I'd love to run some ballistics tests, first of all: the old 7.62x45 Czech round vs the old 7x43 Brit vs the new 6.8mm SPC. Build my rifle and SAW around the winner.

I'd be very tempted to go modular for my base assault rifle. For the most part, the modern battlefield demands a compact weapon, for handling inside buildings and vehicles. The weapon I have in mind is, admittedly, untested-the new Robarm XCR. Short barrel for SL, TLs, and grenadiers. Long heavy barrel for the TEAM designated marksman-that means two per squad. And build a modified version of the SAW for the auto-riflemen-I like that belt fed firepower for supression.

Pistols for the SL and TLs-HK USPs in .45 ACP. 10mm is my fav when I can use JHPs, but for hardball, give me 200gr .45ACP.

Grenadiers would have M203s on their rifles.

To review:

Sqd Ldr: XCR w/16" barrel (call it 6.8mm), USP in .45 ACP
Tm Ldr (x2): 16" XCR, USP
Grenadier: 16" XCR w/M203
SAW Gunner: M249A2 in 6.8mm

I'd add 3 MG teams with M240Bs (MAG-58s) in 7.62 NATO at the platoon level.

Posted by Heartless Libertarian at February 2, 2005 01:30 PM

I'm glad somebody mentioned grenadiers...there's more to infantry combat than just marksmanship! I know...heresy.

Squad Leader: HK MP-10 SMG (10mm); Glock 20
Squad support: M-240; Glock 20

Fire Teams
Designated marksman: M-14; Glock 20
Grenadier: M-16/M-203; Glock 20
Rifleman (X2) M-16A2 or M-4; Glock 20; Grenades

Yes, this heretic thinks the mousegun has a place in the squad. If you're just putting down a base of fire, there's no sense wasting the bigger cartridges.

I also think the Glock 20 (or 21 in .45) would make an excellent sidearm if Glock would build the magazines without the round-counter holes in them.

Posted by cowboy blob at February 2, 2005 02:51 PM


-I've suffered such punishment, inflicted by my own had, with Garands belonging to others. Perhaps it's the subconscious exacting some manner of atonement on the physical being for not owning such a classic. I know the bolt will mangle my digits, but I can't resist letting it attempt to chamber my thumb.


Posted by Jasen at February 2, 2005 04:25 PM

Flechettes, bead rifles, tri-barrels, maybe even energy weapons if you can achieve the recharge logistics...

Posted by triticale at February 2, 2005 10:37 PM
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