Comments: Irritating that it happened...

Good Point...Well Said!!!!!!

It is interesting to me that, in my opinion, everyone is "somewhat right" and "somewhat wrong".

Very touchy situation. Know what I mean?

posted by Sam on May 7, 2004 11:14 PM

If we hold ourselves up as "defending and promoting democracy and human rights" we do indeed have to be BETTER than everyone else, to the point of being IMMACULATE, not "well, Saddam tortured thousands, we only did some humiliating things to a few".

Think about it. If we are going to have the arrogance to proclaim that our way of life is better than everyone else's, then we have to prove it every day in every way. Not by trying to mitigate these horrific acts by saying "well, they were provoked". Saddam was "provoked" by those who wanted him out of power. Were they wrong in wanting him out of power? We say "No", but he said "Yes". We are now saying those who oppose us are wrong. The calculus of morality is mighty fine in these cases, and we need to be very careful if we are going to claim the high ground.

posted by Jack on May 8, 2004 12:47 AM

Jack: We do have to maintain a higher standard than the rest for allt he reasons you state. But when was the last time you heard an occupying army/state apologize for the wrongdoing of a few misguided and poorly led soldiers? When?

I'll tell you - never.

What does that say about our way of life and morality?

posted by Jesse on May 8, 2004 01:48 PM

I agree with Jack, Jesse. The point about the apology is a good one though, particularly considering the fact that the Administration was advised against it.

I make no attempt to excuse the behavior. But in my mind, it helps to know "why."

When my husband fucks up royally and then apologizes, that's all well in good. But that doesn't nullify my need for an explanation. I still want to know, "HOW COULD YOU?!"

I think that has been my mind-set this week. I've been trying to figure out, "How could they?"

Were they just friggin clueless? Did they have a partisan agenda? WERE they provoked? Or are they just fucking defective?

If we are to have any control over the prevention of these things in the future, the hows and whys have got to be answered.

Jack's right. We do have that arrogance. Let's have a reason for it.

Denny's right. We can handle this shit without media involvement. The leak needs to be shot.

posted by Key on May 8, 2004 06:23 PM

Why am I not surprised that the blathering gasbag Hackworth was involved in getting those pictures to CBS? That fuckhead forgot what side he was on a long time ago.

I don't buy the excuse that the prisoners deserved what they got or that our troops just popped under pressure. The ones who did that crap weren't being shot at. They were undisciplined paper-shufflers and they should pay for their sins.

We are better than that. Hell, we HAVE to be better than that. We're Americans.

posted by Acidman on May 9, 2004 01:34 PM

Well, for once Acidman, I agree with every word.

(I hope it didn't sound as though I was trying to make excuses for the guards. ...not the case, but wouldn't mind more info.)

posted by Key on May 9, 2004 10:25 PM

Acidman is right...Hackworth is a piece of shit! All would do well to keep an eye on him and his "followers", for the foreseeable future. They're trouble. Brew it to their taste, so to speak.

I don't think they were friggin clueless...I don't think they have a partisan agenda. I don't think they were provoked. I DO THINK they are fucking defective, because the solution is education and the eminence of sensible thought, and the problem is the quality of education. Know what I mean?

Bottom line: we still have to deal with it.

posted by Sam on May 10, 2004 12:03 AM

Right you are, hon.

That would be the bottom line.

Just like toddlers...They may know better, but they shit their pants anyway, and then we gotta bust out the wet wipes. All the other guys might be better trained, but it only takes one dirty diaper to stink up the whole room.

posted by Key on May 10, 2004 01:11 AM

"it only takes one dirty diaper to stink up the whole room."

Right you are, my friend!

posted by Sam on May 10, 2004 11:54 PM
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