Comments: Head in my hands, Heart on my Sleeve

I think it comes down to this: if you believe that your gay friend's marriage should be treated the same as your own (and marriage, not some partnership that is treated as something that has rights but still not a marriage), then you should vote no. I really feel, and these are my opinions, that a vote yes is equivalent to someone coming to my wedding but doing something to make my interracial marriage invalid.

There was a point in California law where interracial marriages were actually illegal -- Armenians couldn't even buy homes in some places. I know you don't like judicial activism, but some activism is necessary to help society progress. Without it we wouldn't have had the civil rights movement for sure. I think this is actually the right way to go about bringing gay rights on a national level. I don't think its right to do something on a national level until at least a quarter of the states have really taken a good hard look at the issue. California should be at the forefront of this because of our unique diverse population.

You express annoyance for the No on Prop 8 people but aren't you just annoyed with the Yes on Prop 8 people? The blatant exploitation of children is just damned noxious to me.

To quote my boss -- "it is what it is." It's the "elimination of rights for same sex couples." It's not about telling churches what to do - Catholic churches can refuse to marry some people if they are not really practicing Catholics...same with Jewish temples. It's a scare tactic used by people who only want traditional marriage. There are going to be some idiots who may try sh*t but then it'll go to the courts and we'll take care of that as it comes.

I hope you vote No and I hope I helped a little.

Posted by SBC at November 3, 2008 03:16 PM

It's tough - more than tough. It feels unfair. And frankly - we believe in fairness whether it be in the retrospect of skin color, sexual persuasion, socio economic class, or whatever...

Laws should be "fair". But I *do* have issues with the the word "marriage" within a social or church philosophy being dictated by law.

I DON'T believe that I am any less married in God's eyes because I was married by a judge in a chapel and NOT in the Catholic Church (or any other).

I do believe that people in a committed relationship should be recognized (if they so choose) - the same as me - as "married". With all of the benefits and detriments (hello - painful, complicated dissolution of said relationship) and legal ramifications (as in decisions concerning medical care or disbursement of estates) as *I* am.

I have trouble with labeling the whole deal "marriage" - because that indicates a relationship recognized by the church and GOD.

"Civil Union" works for me - Meaning equal rights under the law for committed couples regardless of hetero sexual palimony or same sex union - and a few of the gay people who are in my life (see Wald Law Blog) - they are trying to find a balance too.

It's tough.

Something will make it right - I am just not yet sure that a definition of "marraige" is it... WE shall see...

Posted by Richmonds at November 3, 2008 06:22 PM

Don't go to the dark side! This is not about what feels good, it's about what is best for the future of our nation. Vote Yes on 8!

Posted by Pasadena Closet Conservative at November 3, 2008 10:11 PM

Vote no! Vote no!

Parenthetically, you should see the emails that flew back and forth on this between my dad and my sister...

Posted by ZTZCheese at November 3, 2008 10:15 PM

CTG, you know the right thing to do.

If the proposition were about activist judges defining marriage, it would be the "Judges Don't Define Marriage" Proposition.

But that's not what it's about. It's about defining marriage. Restricting it, by law. Is this the right way of doing it?

A vote against 8 doesn't mean you favor activist judiciary, or even marriage for LGBT -- it can also mean you simply feel that the proposition as written is too flawed to vote for. It hurts too many people. I myself voted against a proposition in the previous election that ostensibly stood for things I believed in, but it would not have accomplished those things, not in the right way.

You know what's right. Good luck tomorrow.

Posted by Joe at November 3, 2008 10:25 PM

Definitely a rock and a hard place. I too have a dear friend who is a lesbian. And was there when she stepped out of that closet. We had a dear friend commit suicide because we *believe* he was hiding his homosexuality. These are people we love, and would never choose to hamper or harm them. It is a struggle on so many levels.

Posted by Stacy at November 4, 2008 12:15 PM

I weighed it out between my flesh and my spirit. I chose to vote by my spirit because in the end, it is what matters most to me.

As long as YOU can live with your choice, that is all that matters.

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Posted by createmo at November 5, 2008 03:33 AM