Comments: Toronto: Sad, but true

Yep, see it everyday on TV and I'm the one going crazy? Maybe.

Posted by Dex at July 2, 2004 12:28 AM

So true! Glad I'm not the only Torontonian who isn't nuts.

Posted by Laura at July 2, 2004 01:06 AM

Technically that collection of idiotarians I linked to was in Ottawa, not Toronto. Not that it makes a difference. If anything those sentiments are more likely to be encountered in Toronto than Ottawa.

Posted by Trudeaupia at July 2, 2004 07:54 AM

Apologies for repeating myself, but - this isn't new. I lived in Toronto from 1971-78 and it was just as bad then (though being in university from '71-'74 I was probably exposed to a more concentrated form). Back then it was because of Vietnam and you-people-treat-your-Negroes-so-badly. During the Eighties I suppose it was all Reagan's fault. Now, of course, it's Dubya's. It's as if Canada needs to hate us just to affirm their own existence. Sheesh.

My husband and I were last in Toronto in March '01 (there was the Scythian exhibit at the ROM which wasn't coming to Chicago, and I wanted to see it). We were there basically for the long weekend; we looked up one couple who were longtime friends; all was well. But lacking any other blockbuster exhibits that won't come within 600 miles of Chicago otherwise, I doubt I'll ever cross the border again. Which should keep everyone satisfied.

Posted by Anne at July 2, 2004 08:49 AM

Greetings from Calgary. Remember that Alberta is only fractionally less communistic -- if at all -- than other parts of Canada. The difference is that the situation here is perhaps not yet irremediable; in other provinces it may be more problematic.

Posted by Charles MacDonald at July 2, 2004 11:01 AM

Born and raised here. Those are certainly some very large brush strokes. As much as the "left" may have an axe to grind, I think those of you on the "right" have your own axe to grind seeking out such people that make idiotic comments like those. (You should damn well know who McRae is and what slant of newspaper the Sun chain are.) I think if you ask a larger sample of people here what they think of Americans in general, you wouldn't get "I hate them comments." I think you'd get more of indifferent "mostly pushy and loud" comments.

The only thing I'm envious of is your warmer weather and your many nice beaches. As for being ashamed, I'm only ashamed that no Canadian team has won a Stanley Cup in ten years.

As for my slant, well, I'm all over the place so I consider myself centre.

Posted by Toronto Guy at July 2, 2004 02:38 PM

These types of anti American comments may sound extreme and unusual to many Americans but, as a resident of Toronto, I can assure you that they are depressingly familiar. They are particularly prevalent amongst young people who absorb this poison at high school, typically from their teachers. These comments are usually accompanied by references to the astonishing stupidity of Americans. However when challenged to explain the unprecedented success of a country populated by such ignorant fools I am usually met with sullen silence. Tolerance is touted as a particularly Canadian virtue (in Canada) however it appears that it is quite acceptable to suspend this virtue when considering America. As an immigrant to Canada I have often puzzled over this characteristic of Canadians and finally I have concluded it is quite simply nothing more than jealousy.

Posted by Tony Orton at July 2, 2004 02:39 PM

And I have much indifference to the events going on over in the middle east. (One thing the lefties don't seem to realize is that Bush and co could have easily just levelled the place wiping everything out. I also think the comparisons to REAL police states are absurd. At least for now... :-p )

Posted by Toronto Guy at July 2, 2004 02:43 PM

My wife has relatives in Vancouver BC, and in a farming community in northern BC. There is a world of difference between them.
The small town relatives are pretty objective and balanced about the US, and are a pleasure when they come to visit. They are loyal Canadians but also understand international diplomacy on a small scale.
The Vancouver residents are a non-stop anti-american jihad from the start to finish of any visits. I'm so happy to see them leave.
It seems that big city dwelling Canadians have caught the hate-america virus, perhaps from the high density living.

Posted by Franck at July 2, 2004 02:44 PM

Tony Orton: Jealous of what though? Nicer weather and beaches. Check. Higher valued currency. Check. Anything else? Can't think of any.

We certainly can be more smug about Americans particularly when we constantly see just about the worst of what their culture is. The good parts don't always come shining through.

Posted by Toronto Guy at July 2, 2004 02:54 PM

Anti-Americanism is hardly a new phenomenon is Canada. We were settled by people who left the US during and after the American Revolution specifically because they didn't like the idea of an American republic. And this migration continued unabated well into the early part of the 19th century. It was effectively stopped around 1810 when Canada passed laws preventing Americans from owning land unless they've been citizens for 7 years.

In the War of 1812 Canadians overwhelingly rejected an overture from Americans to join them and overthrow the British. Because the Canadians were British. Anti-Americanism has been a Canadian sentiment for well over 200 years.

Canada and the US are business partners, we are not friends. This is the way it has always been. If we were friends the US wouldn't have closed their border to cattle over 1 diseased cow. Let's not pretend that Canada does not have a host of legitimate grievances with the US.

Historically, Canada and the US have not been allies. If the US had been our ally they would have joined the First World War in 1914 and the Second in 1939. Self-interest and isolationism kept them out of it. There can be no better example of what allies do then Canada marching off to two World Wars at the call of Britain. Canada and the US have never had a relationship approaching anything like this.

I think Canada should have went to war with Iraq based on the merits of the case, but the attitude of some Americans that we should have gone simply because America is our ally is complety misplaced.

Posted by Bobo at July 2, 2004 04:34 PM

Hi Bobo - Supporting the US in Iraq was Canada's choice to make as a sovereign nation. I have no quarrel with that.

What I do quarrel with are Chretien's motives for trying to keep Saddam in power, his trip to Mexico to bring Pres. Fox into the Axis of Weasels, and the lies that feed the Toronto Star and CBC.

The historical antagonisms you recount between Canada and the USA are true but kind of on the ancient side. One has to suspect that Canadians actively nurse those grudges.

But don't mind me. I'm resigned to wading through the annual swath of news articles next fall devoted to wondering why American tourists didn't come to Toronto this summer.

Posted by Debbye at July 5, 2004 06:38 AM